Below is the full transcript of an exclusive interview with Pirates owner Bob Nutting. The Post-Gazette published excerpts of the interview in stories that appeared earlier this week.
How long was the process that resulted in three consecutive playoff appearances?
This month is 10 years that I’ve had an opportunity to be in this seat. It gave me a chance to look back and see how much the organization has fundamentally changed and how we’ve changed our people, how we’ve changed the culture and the process, and how we’ve updated the facilities.
The amazing thing to me is how much has transformed in order to put us in a position to have those seasons, to have the team perform as it does on the field, and maybe most importantly, the position we’re in as we look forward. It was really interesting to me as I looked back over 10 years, what struck me most was how excited I am for the next 10, and the platform we have and the stability we have to roll forward.
What issues do you want to address as a franchise going forward?
I think it’s critically important to think that because we cannot stay where we are. There are 30 great teams in baseball, great organizations pushing forward. Frankly what got us to the playoffs in 2013 won’t be good enough to get us there in ’17, ’18, ’19. We need to get better, we need to continue to look for every efficiency and inefficiency in the game that we can, as we source talent, as we get the very best people in, as we provide support for great systems, process, programs internally, I really believe, in my seat, as an opportunity to lead a great organization, my most important role was making sure we had the right people in place, they have the tools they need to get the job done, and we have a clear mission, a clear vision, a clear direction that we’re going to head. I think we have those pieces, but to take advantage of where the game is overall, where the organization is overall, continuing to challenge those assumptions and challenge the process, I think we have exactly the right people in place to be able to do that.
Describe the process of finding and hiring Frank Coonelly
I really did take almost nine months to try to help myself understand what the landscape was for the Pirates, what the landscape was in baseball. Spent a lot of time talking to successful organizations, spent a lot of time at the commissioner’s office, talked to all of the lead executives trying to get an understanding of where we were as a franchise and what the best minds in the game would do to drive us forward. That really helped pull together a vision for where the organization could go, needed to go, and was going to take some time to get to. In that process, one of the people who really impressed me with a clear understanding of where the game was and particularly where small markets needed to be able to source talent was Frank. He was one of the guys I’d talked to. I’d seen him make presentations to the overall ownership group. He was a very important person in the commissioner’s office and was one of the common themes that I heard throughout the game. People I really respected, respected Frank. Being able to recruit him to come to Pittsburgh to take on what was really a significant challenge, in turning around a franchise, reconnecting with a city, restoring the pride and passion of a franchise that was not in a good place, it became clear that we shared a vision, but more importantly he had the dedication, commitment and knowledge base to be able to come in here and really make an impact.
Did Frank present you with a plan?
To some degree. We had a lot of people giving support, direction and input. The most important piece, Frank really did have a deep understanding of particularly the sourcing of talent, but also as a great leader. I think one of the things, he has a strong personality, he’s a strong leader, he has a strong vision, and is someone who is able to build and recruit a team around him. He’s willing to have really good, excellent people who are driving the ship forward. And so when we interviewed Neal together, it was important that we had someone who fit well within that group but also who shared the excitement for the challenge of doing something really meaningful for a franchise that needed meaningful support.
Neal Huntington (Post-Gazette file photo)
How did you select Neal Huntington as general manager?
I think the attributes that Neal brought are still what make him a great general manger and that is his intellectual curiosity and the breadth of his both background, but also as he’s moving forward. He had worked with the development system, he’d worked with scouting, he’d worked with the major league club. He had a lot of breadth. Most importantly, as we look at what he’s done today, he has a great appreciation for numbers, metrics. Incredibly bright and talented individual and also really has an understanding and respect for the history of the game, the intangibles, the cultural elements that help individuals and coaches, players, perform best. And those are both critical elements, somewhat in conflict, and he’s able to pull them both together. But I think the most important thing that impressed me then, and still does, is his ability to question and change in times of success. I think this is critically important for this or any organization, when things are going best is when you need to be re-evaluating most seriously. You cannot take a year or two or three of success and settle. What got us there wasn’t a fixed plan, it was our commitment to innovation, our commitment to excellence, our commitment to finding inefficiencies. Those change every year, those change every month. So the intellectual capacity and flexibility that he brought to the job also is what I think is going to make him great as we look forward over the next decade.
So what was the plan, or was it an evolving idea?
I think it was a process. Process versus plan. There are pieces that are structural. A good anecdote is how it takes time … the Dominican and our commitment to international, because my first trip down to the Dominican was in ’07. Went down and looked at the facility we had. Physical plant, inadequate. Culture, tone, reflected. A poor apartment complex with no food facility and a fairly beaten-up field literally with chickens running around in some beat-up grass. It was really an amazing eye-opener for me at how low the level of, not only our facility, but frankly a lot of facilities in the Dominican were at that time.
We came away from that trip with an absolute commitment that we needed to have a premier facility. Roberto Clemente’s a legend still. We need to own and have a strong presence in Latin America. It took two years to get the facility built. You can’t snap your fingers. In ’09 we finally got the facility, permitting, structure, architectural, finished. In that first class we had a pretty talented baseball player, Gregory Polanco, but he didn’t make his appearance in Pittsburgh until ’14. In terms of the cycle and what it takes, we had to have the facility in place, took two years. We had to have a commitment to get tremendously good individuals. Rene Gayo, who scouts, very talented and deeply committed to this organization. Finding and sourcing the talent but then having a system to be able to nurture, develop and support that talent for another five years. We talk about the long life cycle of projects versus the absolute focus on tonight’s game. That’s the most interesting thing that I’ve learned of, you have to respect both ends of that spectrum and we have to be excellent at both ends of that spectrum.
What was your education like as far as how the business of baseball is run?
In ’03 when I got involved, really was, we’d been investors with Kevin McClatchy since ’96, Feb. 14, ’96. We were small investors. By ’03 it became clear that, for a variety of reasons, the team had various challenges. That was the time we stepped up to stabilize and support the team with an investment in that time. That’s when I stepped in as chairman. The way baseball worked, but also the way Kevin and I worked, I really was focused on, how do you financially stabilize the club? Not the baseball operations. Didn’t have much interaction with Dave Littlefield. That was Kevin’s passion, what he really wanted to do, and also frankly the rules of baseball dictate that you have a single control person. We worked very effectively together for most of that period, but I think it became clear in ’07 that he was ready to move on and it was time for the club to move in a different direction.
What was the challenge of trying to improve club’s financial situation?
I’m not sure it’s appropriate to go into a lot of detail on that. But the team had serious financial challenges. It was not in a stable place, whether it was operating rules of baseball, which clearly were more strict than what the balance sheet of the operation looked like. It was a point in time when the club should have been stronger. We’d just opened up the ballpark. It was a time when we should have had absolute optimism and instead it was a time when we were truly financially struggling. And that disconnect is what prompted me to step in when we did. It simply wasn’t appropriate for the franchise to have the most beautiful ballpark in America, one of the proudest histories in all of baseball, and a community and a fanbase that, while frustrated, loved and expected great things from the team, hitting the ropes as hard as it was in that cycle. Desperately wanted to see what we could do to help. Tried in that first window, ’03 to ’05 or ’06, to see what we could do inside the operation, and it became clear that wasn’t enough and we needed to really begin a full transformation of the business, of the baseball operations side as well as internally. And that’s what we undertook in ’07. From every standpoint.
We’ve rebuilt every process, and maybe most importantly, I’m proud that we’ve rebuilt the culture. The expectation inside this building is one of absolute excellence, no compromise and no excuses. It’s a group that believes they have an important mission to bring a championship back to Pittsburgh, and that’s what everybody is focused on every single day.
What is it like to look back now, considering where you started?
I am incredibly proud of the transformation in every aspect of the organization and most pleased with the impact it’s had on the field because of the reaction that Pittsburgh has had, and the fans. It’s fun to see the win total. It’s far more exciting to see the enthusiasm, the smile, the support, the families coming out. The impact that it’s had, the number of people who are wearing Pirates jerseys. To see that connection, and to help be a part of and facilitate and steward that reconnection with the community, I think that’s been what I’m most proud of, and what builds the platform for the next decade. We’re just getting to a point where we have that opportunity to really push forward and do something. The last five years, we’ve had the fifth-best record in baseball. That’s great. Proud of it. It’s not where we need to be, it’s not the ultimate goal, but it is a solid foundation that we did not have 10 years ago.
What does this foundation do for your ability to spend?
I think it gives us more flexibility in every area. One thing we need to be really careful of, and I believe have been, is being realistic. We’re never going to have the highest payroll in baseball and we know that doesn’t really matter. We’re going to do what’s most efficient, most effective, with the resources that we have every single day. We were committed to doing that five years ago and we’re committed to doing that five years from now. How that mixes between bringing talent into the organization, it’s not directly major league payroll. It’s how we’re drafting, it’s how we’re funding our international operations. How we develop that talent, that broader picture of both investment in facilities, people and systems in our development system, which has completely transformed from what it had been and frankly what many other clubs are still doing. While the headline number of payroll is important, and we will invest there because we need to to win on the field, it’s also really important that that can’t be the sole metric that we use internally. It’s an easy one externally, but it’s never going to be one internally because we will never accept from anyone in this building that as an excuse, as a reason for limitation. It’s the baseline, it’s where we’re starting. Now we need to go forward and win baseball games.
Does the criticism that you don’t spend enough, that you’re worried more about making a profit and don’t want to win, bother you?
One of the areas where I’ve really learned is to listen to and respect and appreciate the wide diversity of expression of interest in the club. I’m thrilled that people care that much and worry that much and pay that much attention. I really, whether people are high-fiving or whether they’re expressing concern, we will do the best we can. We’re going to focus on putting the best team we can on the field, and we’re going to do our best to listen to and respect all those opinions, while at the end of the day, our responsibility is going to be to make the right decisions for the Pirates to put the strongest possible team. We need to get better every year.
Payroll has increased in recent years. Can you spend on par with your division rivals?
Yes. That’s all true, and we certainly are investing where we need to and where we can. I will never, however, benchmark ourselves against those teams. Might be true that we will never be in the top 10 percent or 10 clubs of payroll. We will never accept that we won’t be in the top 10 teams in performance. We’ve been better than that, we’ve been in the top five over the last five years, irrespective of the payroll. A constant belief that I have inside this building is, yes, it’s an important data point, but if we fixate on that, we can’t simply compete with our market peers. We’re competing with 30 clubs. Where we end up, in the middle or bottom clubs in payroll, that’s not an acceptable place for us to end up performance. I think we have to believe, and I do believe, that we can disconnect those two numbers, those two rankings. We have to do that, we have done that, and it’s hard. Is it easier to have an extra $100 million? Maybe. Have we shown that we can be really disciplined, really focused, invest in the right areas for the highest impact in the best interest of the ballclub? That’s the message that is far more important internally. I’m not sure that everyone externally will embrace that, but it’s the most important thing for our team internally to understand and believe and execute on.
People have described you as competitive. How did you get that way?
I think in sports, in business, in life, it’s important to have a healthy degree of competitiveness. Certainly in my role here, I’m not one who will settle. I absolutely am committed to excellence, whether it’s in my personal life, whether it’s in my hobbies, whether it’s in the baseball club. I think you need to have that level of commitment, drive, competitiveness, commitment to excellence, if you’re going to compete at the level the Pittsburgh Pirates have to compete. We’re competing with very good clubs, run by very smart people, and we need to be better every single day.
Fly fishing, I take seriously. I don’t think it’s a sport built for competition, I’ve fished a couple tournaments but I don’t think that’s why I like to fish. But I do take it fairly seriously — past president of a Trout Unlimited chapter, represented the International Game Fish Association – and if I’m gonna do something, I want to do it pretty seriously, pretty well. So it’s not even an external competition as much as it is an internal commitment that, if you’re going to do it, don’t do a half-baked job on it.
I got the airline pilot certificate, I have the flight instructor, I have the instrument rating, fly seaplanes, fly gliders. Might be a little bit extreme, but I think if you’re going to do something, you have to be committed to doing it really well.
I think if my daughters were here, they would say, you don’t want to do something halfway. Loads of people can do that. There are loads of things other people can do. Pick an area where you can excel, where you can help other people around you excel, and push that as far as you can.
What made you like flying so much that you wanted to keep acquiring certifications?
I love the freedom and flexibility of flying, both from a time standpoint. Neat way to travel, particularly in the ’80s and ’90s, I was doing a lot of travel to smaller markets. Extremely good, efficient way to get back and forth in those markets. But it’s also a safety issue. You don’t want an untrained pilot. I go each year to the same simulator training that airline pilots go to.
Have you ever flown an airliner?
[No]. My brother-in-law retired recently but he flew FA-18 Hornets in the Marines. I had a chance to fly the Marine fighter simulators. It’s also a great lesson in humility because, you talk about commitment, clear-eyed excellence, training, the work that our military does, the work that Steve as a Marine pilot did, is really inspiring too.
Did you get your competitiveness and, as you say, commitment to excellence, from your father?
I’ll give my dad credit, I’ll give my mother credit, too. Mom was a state champion in tennis. She got interested in historic preservation so was on the National Board of Historic Preservation. She also was a very competitive person. I don’t want to say, far more competitive than I would ever hope to be, but very successful, very competitive, very driven. Dad, very focused, very competitive, very driven.
What was it like to grow up with that?
I think like everyone growing up, it’s what you know. It’s what you have. I never grew up in another household.
Why did you choose to attend Williams?
It was a great fit. It was a great school, and what I really took away from it was, as a liberal arts institution, it encouraged a broad-thinking, multi-disciplinary, interdisciplinary studies. To be able to reapply, where does the math fit, where does the history fit, where does the language skill fit, to be able to pull together a complete person is very much like what we’re doing here in player development. Very much helped create the mental flexibility to be able to move to newspapers to Pirates to Seven Springs. Find some of those common themes in what really are very different and very distinct businesses.
What are some of those common themes?
The commitment to doing the right thing for the long term. Fundamentally as a family business, it’s far more important that we are willing to make an investment, as we did in the Dominican, that may not pay dividends for seven years, but do the right thing that will have the long-term impact. Trying to make all of those organizations a little bit better each year, make sure they’re moving forward on a track that is something that, at the end of the day, our family can be, proud of.
I think the other common theme is that they all have fans who are deeply invested in the outcome.
What was it like to be a reporter? [In 1983, at the Jamestown (N.Y.) Post-Journal].
Reporting is fun, because you get to ask questions, you get to nose in, you get to know a community. It was also fun because we had a really good staff at the time, a really good group of people. One of the guys I started with, Scott Kinsburg, is the current sports editor up there. He was on the sewer beat when I started that first year.
I worry about where journalism is headed. I worry about the role of newspapers and how they look five years and 10 years out.
What are you most proud of?
Most proud of the fundamental transformation of people, culture, facilities over the past 10 years and can’t overstate how much that has changed, but proud of it because it built that platform for us to have much greater success as we go forward.
What would you have done differently?
I wish we could have done it faster, but I don’t think we could have. I wish it were easier, but you can’t accelerate a building project, recruiting talent in, developing talent, seeing it on the field, and it’s going to take time. I’m not a particularly patient person. I’m not built that way. But have had to learn that there is a cycle that is critically important to respect and work with because when you try to take shortcuts, it just doesn’t work, and I really believe there aren’t any shortcuts to excellence.
Nobody cared more than Kevin McClatchy. Kevin had a big heart and loved the team and wanted to perform, but you simply cannot force a few players onto a field as free-agent patches together. You’ve seen it in Pittsburgh, you’ve seen it in San Diego, you’ve seen it in New York. It simply is not a functional model for baseball today.
Frank Coonelly (Peter Diana/Post-Gazette)
Anything else you’d like to add?
Just how good I believe the team that we have here is. Just how well respected Frank Coonelly is, not only by me and by this office but by baseball. I was just with him at my major league meetings last week and I was proud to stand there with him and know that the league respected him as much as I did. And that goes to Frank, it goes to Neal, it goes to Clint, but goes deeper in the organization. In the past we had a scouting director and a development director that couldn’t stand each other. Couldn’t be in the same room together. And now Greg Smith and Kyle Stark will work together to craft a plan, to develop the players in the best interest of the team.
What are your thoughts on serving on the MLB executive council?
Those, and also chairing the ownership committee, have been a tremendous opportunity for me to get to know the clearest, best thinkers in the game, to be engaged in and have visibility into the workings of Major League Baseball. Deep appreciation for the commissioner’s office.
Most importantly, being able to represent the interest of the Pittsburgh Pirates and make sure the Pirates have a voice and visibility in the game is maybe the most important piece. We are absolutely, whether it’s the performance of the team, whether it’s my role or Frank’s role as well, the respect for and visibility for the Pirates is fundamentally different than it was a few years ago.
Where does the team stand with Andrew McCutchen?
Andrew has been such an important part of this club. Personally I have the greatest respect for him as a baseball player, as a human being. On the field, he is an impact player. Off the field, he’s had a huge impact on the city of Pittsburgh, so I have nothing but appreciation and respect for what Andrew has done for the club.
What is the status of Jung Ho Kang and do you anticipate discipline?
[Note: this interview was conducted before the announcement that Kang would miss report date because of his trial in South Korea due to his DUI arrest.]
We’re working our way through that process. I think what’s most important is, he has taken responsibility for his issues. He has disappointed himself and the organization is disappointed. We appreciate that he’s taken responsibility. And frankly the Pittsburgh Pirates are well-positioned as an organization that cares about players and about people to help provide the support for him that he needs to be a great player on the field, get his life back in order and to move forward.
What are your thoughts on the nine players from the Pirates organization participating in the World Baseball Classic?
I’m excited for the World Baseball Classic. I think it’s a great opportunity to showcase not only Pirates players, but major league players from around the league and to see competition on a global stage. Baseball really is a global sport, and to see that international component highlighted is exciting. I look forward to the games and it’s a testament to how far the Pirates organization has come that we’re going to have impact players on the field for multiple teams.
How do you balance wanting to grow the game globally with the WBC with increased injury risk and disrupted preparation for the season?
That’s a real challenge. At the same time, I think baseball has done, I think the commissioner’s office has done, as much as they can to create a program that allows players to participate without in any way compromising their ability to have real impact when they come back to the teams. Our first interest has to be the impact on the Pittsburgh Pirates. I think the commissioner’s office has done a really good job finding the right balance to allow players to participate without having a negative impact on the field.
How will changes to the CBA affect Pirates during next five years?
Our role is to understand the agreement, understand where the efficiencies and inefficiencies come, and how we can exploit those areas for the greatest impact for the Pittsburgh Pirates.
First Published: February 15, 2017, 6:04 p.m.
