Talks between Pittsburgh City Council members and university leaders yesterday on a proposed tuition tax were "productive," both sides said, but there was no evidence that a standoff between the city and its academic community was at an end.

Four members of council, all of whom have said they'll vote for the 1 percent tuition levy, met behind closed doors with Carlow University President Mary Hines and Point Park University President Paul Hennigan.

"The meeting was productive and we are bringing back information to our groups," said Dr. Hines. "We agreed to make no further comment."

Might the meeting lead to any change in council's plan to vote on the tax Wednesday?

"It may. It really may," said Councilwoman Tonya Payne, who attended the meeting. She would not elaborate.

"The members that met today, we were all in support of the mayor's plan," she continued. "But none of us are eager to tax students. But we don't want to tax the citizens of the city, either."

The city and the universities have dug into positions from which it's hard to back down. Both sides insist that the other budge first.

Mayor Luke Ravenstahl reiterated yesterday that he won't move to shelve his proposed 1 percent tuition tax in advance of negotiations unless he's "comfortable that those discussions will produce $15 million in some way, shape or form."

The administration calculates that it needs $15 million a year, plus $200 million from a long-term lease of public parking garages, to replenish its drained pension fund.

The universities led a group of tax-exempt institutions that offered the city a total of $5.5 million for last year, this year, and next year. The city hasn't acted on that offer. This week the Rev. Ron Lengwin, spokesman for the Diocese of Pittsburgh and the Pittsburgh Public Service Fund, said he's "not sure how much money is available at this time."

University leaders have hinted that they might be willing to help the city to lobby Harrisburg for more taxing power -- but only after the tuition tax is nixed.

In addition to Ms. Payne, the meeting was attended by council members Darlene Harris, Jim Motznik and Theresa Smith. That left it one member short of the quorum that would have triggered public access rules.

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