Gov. Ed Rendell hasn't made many friends of late as he swings his budget ax, but give him this:

His assertion that sharp tuition hikes make the four state-related universities seem less-than-public in April prompted one of those schools, the University of Pittsburgh, to offer Pennsylvanians attending its branch campuses something rare -- a tuition freeze.

Much has changed since then, and not for the better.

Today, as Penn State University sets its tuition for 2009-10, the deliberations no doubt will be influenced by a growing dispute between the governor and the state-related schools -- Penn State and Pitt, as well as Temple and Lincoln universities -- over just how public they really are.

On June 26, the governor proposed deeper cuts in their 2009-10 budgets given the state's fiscal crisis, and he removed them from the state's application for federal stimulus aid intended for public higher education. Asked why, his aides said the schools are not under absolute state control, citing as evidence rapidly rising tuition.

Pitt, which called the move stunning, said it remains committed to its regional campus freeze on undergraduate tuition for 2009-10, but the university isn't saying what will happen to its main campus tuition. Nor will Penn State make predictions about today's board of trustees meeting at its New Kensington campus.

Will the schools hold their increases at or below inflation, undermining the governor's claim that the schools do not control their prices?

Or, given the recession's toll, will they raise tuition sharply and blame Mr. Rendell, who is not only trying to exclude them from federal economic stimulus money but also has proposed cutting their state appropriations by 13 percent?

In a letter to the federal government protesting Mr. Rendell's stimulus application, Pitt Chancellor Mark Nordenberg said his school's early announcement about tuition at its Bradford, Greensburg, Johnstown and Titusville campuses was a response to Mr. Rendell's prodding that state-related schools ought to at least curb satellite campus prices.

The chancellor this week said proposed budget cuts and the potentially lost stimulus money -- a combined loss of about $30 million -- would drop Pitt's level of state support below 1995 levels. Penn State -- bracing for another $60 million in lost aid -- says its support from the state is already under year 2000 levels.

"After tackling a decade of cuts," Penn State spokeswoman Lisa Powers said, "Penn State is running out of options."

Beyond tuition dollars, the dispute has reignited a decades-old debate about the identity of this unusual group of universities, which are not state-owned but receive more than a half billion dollars in state aid each year. In return, they charge lower tuition rates for Pennsylvanians, unlike the state's private schools.

In many respects, Pitt, Penn State and Temple have the highest profiles among Pennsylvania's public higher education system with their medical schools, research complexes and vast construction agendas. As their leaders frequently note, the schools create jobs and help fuel the state's economy.

But the state has relatively little control over their boards of trustees; the Rendell administration says that is a reason that tuition at schools like Pitt and Penn State rose by 118 percent and 123 percent, respectively, during the past decade, compared to 55 percent at the 14 state-owned universities, such as California, Clarion, Edinboro, Indiana and Slippery Rock universities.

What's more, the state-related campuses are largely exempt from public disclosure requirements that let taxpayers see how efficiently state dollars are spent at the state-owned universities and community colleges.

Does that distinction make the state-related campuses private? Or does their service to the state make them public, as their leaders insist?

"As a practical matter, I think they're somewhere in between," said Ron Cowell, a former state House Education Committee chairman, former Pitt trustee and the current president of the Education Policy and Leadership Center, a nonpartisan, nonprofit group based in Harrisburg. "But the posture of the administrations -- in particular Pitt, Penn State and Temple -- has added to the ambiguity over the years.

"When there has been money at stake, they've usually emphasized their public status," Mr. Cowell said.

But it's a different matter when the topic turns to the state's Right to Know Law. "They went into court in some cases to protect their private status," he said.

Mr. Cowell said he believes the four schools -- like other education sectors -- do not get enough state aid. But given what the state-related schools do receive, he added, "There have been very few strings attached."

Penn State's state-related standing dates to its designation as a land grant university in 1863, according to the state Department of Education. Pitt, once a private state-aided institution, gained state-related status in 1966. Temple did so in 1965, and Lincoln University joined in 1972.

For Pitt, the influx of funding that accompanied the designation helped it weather a 1960s financial crisis. In a book chronicling Pitt's first 200 years published by the University of Pittsburgh Press, Robert C. Alberts described what seemed like a hybrid.

"The University remained legally a private entity and, in practice, retained the freedom and individuality of a private institution, both administratively and academically," Mr. Alberts wrote in "Pitt: The Story of the University of Pittsburgh 1787-1987."

At the same time, he wrote, "The Commonwealth obtained the services of a state university in educating its young people, and did so without the huge capital investment that would have been required to build such an institution ... "

Even today, ambiguity exists. Both Pitt and Penn State say they are "instrumentalities of the state," and an opinion by Penn State's counsel last month even used the words "state university" in describing Penn State's function.

But in telling state legislators in 2007 that his school should not be subject to the Right to Know Law, Penn State President Graham Spanier aligned his university more with private state-aided schools, such as the University of Pennsylvania, which are not covered by the law.

State-related leaders say their tuitions are higher because their research campuses face different costs and get too little state support.

"Our employees are getting no raises this year, and the state is asking too much of our students and their families," Penn State's Ms. Powers said.