Though Pittsburgh's Democratic mayoral candidates were talking to representatives of the nonprofit community, it was all about the bottom line at a forum at Carnegie Music Hall yesterday.

For instance, Councilman Patrick Dowd brought up the city's practice, since 2005, of asking arts, culture, medical and educational institutions to make quarterly payments to ease the city's budget woes.

"For the small arts organizations," the Democratic mayoral challenger said, "we should try to avoid taking taxes from them." The big medical and educational institutions, he said, pose "a different question," but he would not say how much they should pay the city for the services it provides, saying only that the city should cut waste before asking anyone to pay more.

Nonprofit organizations made $14 million in voluntary contributions to the city from 2005 through 2007, and in March they offered $5.5 million to cover the years 2008 through 2010. Mayor Luke Ravenstahl wants to take the deal, and City Council is considering whether to approve it.

Mr. Ravenstahl said yesterday that he wants a longer-term agreement and more dollars after 2010, when he hopes the economy will be better.

That's not good enough, said attorney Carmen Robinson, also a Democratic challenger on the May 19 mayoral ballot. If the nonprofit world had offered her $5.5 million, "I would've said, 'at least $20 million,' in hopes that they would have countered with $10 [million]," she said.

If they hadn't, she'd have done everything she could to "stop allowing them to buy property," she said after the forum.

Arts groups have made contributions to the city, and continue to do so, but can't afford much now, Mitch Swain, chief executive officer of the Greater Pittsburgh Arts Council, said after the forum. "We are cutting back programs, laying off personnel, restructuring our organizations," he said.

Mr. Ravenstahl said his administration is considering reviving and increasing a little-noted provision in the city code that requires developers to spend 1 percent of the budget of large building projects on public art. "We'll commit to increasing it," he said.

The mayor reiterated his commitment to merging the city with Allegheny County. Mr. Dowd said he's already convened a group of officials from the city and 35 adjacent municipalities to talk about coordinating investments in things like new sewers.

Ms. Robinson pointed to the April 4 Stanton Heights shootings of three police officers, before which a call-taker at the merged countywide 911 center failed to pass on information that there were weapons in the house, as an example of the downside of consolidation.

"When you consolidate services just to save a buck, you wind up with a debacle like April 4," she said.