Fans of the forward-thinking side of jazz will be in heaven this week, as they trace the exploits of the region's two most progressive jazz proponents -- Thoth Trio and Cap Gun Quartet. Both are releasing new discs, "Thoth Speaks" and "Some Other Sounds," and the two bandleaders -- saxophonist Ben Opie and bassist Jeff Stringer -- can draw a family tree on the back on a napkin to show how both musicians' approaches stem from their involvement in Water Shed 5tet.

All through the '90s, Water Shed tore up clubs and festival stages in town as Pittsburgh's pre-eminent avant-garde jazz-rock ensemble, churning out four albums on indie labels such as San Francisco's Rastascan and Boston's Tautology. For Stringer, the evolution from Water Shed to Cap Gun happened quickly. "When Water Shed broke up in 2000," he recalls, "I started a new job, and that's how I met [drummer] Rich Strong, who also plays full-time with the Boilermaker Jazz Band. I already knew [trumpeter] Roger Dannenberg because he'd sat in with Water Shed a few times. Plus, I wanted to work with a pianist, and Victor Garzotto was this mainstream jazzer with chops out the wazoo. So that was the original core of our group."

Around that time, Opie began to realize his dream of forming an Arkestra-styled big band, which could tackle the works of Sun Ra and other avant luminaries. Referencing a certain oil cartel, he called it Opek 15 (later shortened to Opek), though the group actually hovered around a dozen or so in size. Crucial to Opek's rhythmic backbone were drummer David Throckmorton and bassist Paul Thompson -- founding members of groove merchants Beam and veterans of Maynard Ferguson's touring group.

"I remember the first time playing with these guys and thinking that I wanted to form a trio with them," recalls Opie, who named Thoth by conflating the Egyptian god of the arts with the initials of the players' names. Opie was inspired by the legacy of great sax-bass-drums trios, such as Sonny Rollins' trio lineups in the '50s and '60s (which included legends such as Max Roach, Kenny Clarke and Henry Grimes) or Ornette Coleman's classic threesome with David Izenson and Charles Moffett. "I wanted have a group of my own in that format," continues Opie. "I like the stripped-down nature. Trios are about three people working off one another, and there's nowhere to hide."

Stringer's palette of influences arise more from a '70s vibe, that of angular prog-rock and funk-laden jazz fusion. Everyone in the group except for Garzotto (who plays a Steinway on three tunes on the CD) jams through some heavy-duty signal processing effects (e.g. the track "Mirror Mirror"), lending a spacey swirliness to their sonic nebula.

Water Shed ex-drummer Jay Matula also appears alongside Strong. "We do some atmospheric stuff, some noisy stuff, and some tunes that are a bit disjointed," he explains. "Although Roger contributes pieces, in general I write the music for [Cap Gun]. I've always been a big fan of Bill Frisell, and I love Herbie Hancock -- 'Headhunters' is a great record."

Though based in elements of fringe jazz, both groups are finding their own path shifting slowly towards the center. Since Thoth's 2004 CD "Apropos of Nothing," the trio has found more opportunities to reach mainstream audiences, who can clearly recognize what the group has to offer as a serious permutation of jazz, even if it's not the kind they hear in the middle of the evening on WDUQ.

"We've played at the Backstage Bar in the Cultural District to a great response," says Opie. "Nobody ran out holding their ears -- people just sat and listened. I'll get a call once in a while for a small group for a reception, and I'll get Dave and Paul. We keep it low key and play songs that we like. We've pulled out Sun Ra in cases like that -- I like the dichotomy that we're doing something that's supposed to be strange, but if you play it quietly enough, nobody seems to mind."

Cap Gun tosses in an Ornette Coleman cover (a Naked City-styled version of "Blues Connotation"), but also reaches out to a different discipline -- the literary scene, via poets Michael Wurster and Romella Kitchens, who recite verse over short vignettes on the album. The words of Wurster reflect a highly visual narrative, while Kitchens' prose leans towards a multi-culti, storytelling Earth Mother vibe.

"Michael comes to see us and likes the band," says Stringer. "He had jazz and poetry nights at Club Cafe and asked us to do it once. Romella had a gig at the Hill House to benefit Autumn House Press, and she asked us to back her up. So when we decided to record, we booked several days at George Heid's studio, and I thought on the last day, 'Why don't we invite the poets in and see what happens?' "

Stringer and Opie share a fondness for Roger Dannenberg's teenage son, Richard, who plays cello and violin on Cap Gun's CD and may integrate into the quartet due to his decision to remain in Pittsburgh and attend Carnegie Mellon next year. At CAPA High School, Richard is a student of Opie, who teaches music technology and conducts the Antithesis new music ensemble, which has received its own measure of acclaim. "I don't know where else a real avant-garde repertoire ensemble even exists at a high school level," claims Opie.

Richard Dannenberg adds some surprisingly thoughtful solos and extended techniques to tracks such as "Scary Beast" and his dad's "Archimedes" on the Cap Gun CD. "In addition to being able to sight-read anything you throw in front of him, he plays with perfect intonation and he's got a great feel for the music," enthuses Stringer. "For someone that young to have it so together, it blows my mind, and I'm kind of jealous."

In addition to being instrumental in bringing Anthony Braxton this spring (Opie's saxophonist/composer hero will hold forth in late May at the Manchester Craftsman's Guild, and at CAPA with Antithesis), Opie helms electronic music courses at Carnegie Mellon, where Thoth Speaks (with two Thompson compositions in addition to Opie's, plus an old Water Shed burner called "101 Degrees" revisited) was documented by the able ears of classical recording expert Riccardo Schulz.

"We just played live in the studio," says Opie. "There are only two or three edits on the whole thing, no overdubs or punch-ins at all. Apropos is a strong album, but I think this [disc] is more about what our group really sounds like. There's a high degree of intensity, but we can also stop on a dime when we need to. Those characteristics are what really put the group across."

Meanwhile, Stringer hopes that "Some Other Sounds" will allow Cap Gun Quartet (plus added members) to gain a higher profile. "We wanted to do the CD just because we had some material that hadn't been recorded live yet. It's on Amazon, iTunes, emusic and Rhapsody, too -- it's great the way distribution can work now -- but whether or not it sees a lot of sales is a moot point. Hopefully, we'll play out a bit more than we have been, so that we can expose people to it."