People whose properties were damaged by flood water from Girty's Run had questions and complaints for Ross commissioners Monday, even though most of them live in Millvale and Shaler.

About 100 people filled the seats in the meeting room and spilled out into the hallway for the two-hour session at the Ross municipal building.

They complained that decades of residential and commercial development in Ross contributed to the double floods that occurred Aug. 5-6 and Aug. 9 along Girty's Run and other Allegheny County streams. Their properties also were damaged in 2004 by heavy rain from Hurricane Ivan.

They applauded the half-dozen speakers who called for both fast and long-term action to reduce the risk of future floods. Others sought township support for programs to acquire their homes.

"No one is going to buy a house that has been flooded three times in three years," said Janet Zipf, of Millvale, who heads a new Millvale-based organization that was created after this month's storms called Save Our Homes. She and other property owners are pushing for a regional approach to flood control that involves both stream improvements and development restrictions.

She asked Ross officials to take steps to reduce future development, especially along McKnight Road.

She also urged the township to consider changing zoning and subdivision rules that would require existing businesses to reduce storm water runoff. "Old development needs to follow new rules," she said.

Ross engineer Art Gazdik defended township policies and pledged continued cooperation with other municipalities. He advised residents to take their fight to county, state and national officials.

Ross gave financial support to an effort by the North Hills Council of Governments to revise the county's storm water ordinance, he said. That updated ordinance was submitted to Allegheny County Council on Aug. 2, just days before the latest round of flooding.

Existing rules require new developments to include storm water controls that will lessen runoff problems on adjoining properties. The COG proposal would require similar upgrades when a property is redeveloped.

Residents should urge their county legislators to pass the new policy, Mr. Gazdik said.

Ross Commissioners Peter Ferraro and Dan DeMarco backed Mr. Gazdik, saying their township has supported regional efforts to reduce flooding.

Ross residents have been flood victims as well, officials said. About 500 properties in Ross were affected by the August floods, Mr. Ferraro said.

Flooding also cost the community the loss of one of its outstanding citizens, he said. John Brenckle was president of the Ross Fire Police and a longtime volunteer firefighter. He died in 2004 of an infection he contracted from exposure to bacteria-laden flood waters while he was directing traffic following Hurricane Ivan.

Within a week after the most recent floods, crews from the Army Corps of Engineers began removing tons of sand, gravel and trash from about one mile of the concrete-lined channels through which Girty's Run flows in Millvale.

Deana Swendsen, who lives upstream on Walters Avenue in the Bauerstown neighborhood of Shaler, said cleanup work needs to be done along the entire length of the waterway.

As much as 4 feet of sediment has collected along the creek retaining wall near her house, she said. As a result, Girty's Run is more likely to pour over the wall after even moderate rain.

Residents and local governments, however, have been threatened by the state Department of Environmental Protection with jail and fines if they try to remove material from the streambed without a permit, she said.

County Councilman Matt Drozd, R-Ross, said residents had to lobby state and federal officials for help.

The DEP has to approve any stream improvements, he said, while Congress can allocate money for public works improvements such as more retention ponds.

Lisa and Anthony Lind, of Shaler, said they and their 10-year-old son couldn't wait for long-term help. They pushed for quicker action, including more extensive cleanup of the stream bed.

"We need a Band-Aid now," Mrs. Lind said.

"All we hear are gums flapping," her husband said.

"We're moving out and we're never coming back," said Agnes Merlin, who also lives on Walters Avenue in Shaler. "The bank can have my house."

Amy Newman, of Millvale's Sedgewick Street, described herself as living at "ground zero" for flooding. She said she cannot afford to fix up her house again. The wisest policy would be for the county to acquire it because the home is in a flood-prone area, she said.

Because the recent flooding was not widespread enough for residents to qualify for federal disaster aid, county and state officials say they have very limited funds to help victims.

The county and the Salvation Army have teamed up to provide replacement water heaters, while the U.S. Small Business Administration will be able to make low-interest loans.