Annie O'Neill, Post-Gazette photos/AP pool
	Republican gubernatorial candidate Lynn Swann, left, squares off against Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell in last night's televised at Point Park University, co-sponsored by the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and KDKA-TV 2.
	Mr. Rendell makes a point during last night's debate with Mr. Swann.
	The two candidates shake hands at the conclusion of last night's exchange.
	Listen In: The following audio was recorded at the gubernatorial debate held at Point Park University, Downtown, co-sponsored by the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and KDKA-TV 2. Democratic Gov. Ed Rendell's opening statement Republican gubernatorial candidate Lynn Swann's opening statement Question and answer period ( Note: 47 minutes long; file size 25.6 Mb) Ed Rendell's closing statement Lynn Swann's closing statement Entire gubernatorial debate ( Note: 57 minutes long; file size 31.0 Mb)

Gov. Ed Rendell and Republican challenger Lynn Swann faced off for the second time last night, tangling over property taxes, workplace smoking, slots casinos, road repairs, legislators' pay raises, rising pension costs and other issues.

In a spirited one-hour clash at Point Park University, Downtown, Mr. Swann, the former Steelers player making his first run for office, accused Mr. Rendell of "rhetoric rather than results.''

"I believe in reform and results,'' the GOP candidate said during the televised debate, which was co-sponsored by KDKA-TV, the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and Point Park.

"We need reform in Harrisburg. We can't have reform in Harrisburg unless we change governors.''

One sign that reform is needed, he added, is that Mr. Rendell signed the infamous legislative pay raise and called it "a good piece of legislation.''

Mr. Rendell admitted that was a mistake and said perhaps a citizens commission should be set up to determine if future raises were warranted.

Mr. Rendell, the Democrat, touted his record on improving school reading and math test scores, cutting business taxes by $1 billion, improving the environment, providing more money for pre-kindergarten education, and providing $200 to $900 in property tax relief for lower-income senior citizens. He said there would have been greater tax relief had the Republican-controlled Legislature cooperated with him.

Mr. Swann attacked the incumbent for not providing the 30 percent level of property tax relief he'd promised in 2002.

"Ed Rendell made a mistake,'' he charged. "He promised us a 30 percent reduction and he didn't deliver.''

Mr. Rendell said "it was not a mistake'' to talk about such a large tax cut.

He said that the first budget he proposed, in 2003, would have achieved a 30 percent cut if $1 billion in slots revenue had arrived more quickly and if the personal income tax rate had been raised to 3.75 percent (from 2.8 percent) as he tried to do.

He said tax shifting was needed to cut property taxes. But the Legislature approved a personal income tax increase only to 3.07 percent, and the projected casino revenue is now expected to produce an average property tax reduction of about $206 a year for middle-class homeowners, once it arrives in a couple years.

Mr. Rendell said he will continue to push for additional tax shifting if re-elected so that additional property tax cuts are possible.

Mr. Swann criticized the governor for "flexing'' nearly half a billion dollars in federal road and bridge money in early 2005 to keep transit systems in Pittsburgh and Philadelphia operating.

Mr. Rendell said he still has provided over half a billion dollars for roads and bridges, and the fund-shifting was needed "so those transit systems could keep running while we look for [dedicated transit] funding.''

Mr. Swann said slots casinos in the state should have been limited only to racetracks, adding that "free-standing casinos will be a problem.''

The law passed in 2004 calls for seven racetrack/casinos, five free-standing casinos (including one in Pittsburgh) and two resort hotel casinos.

Mr. Rendell said he can support a limited number of non-track casinos, but opposed any gaming expansion such as adding table games.

The two men disagreed on most subjects, but did agree on two things -- that celebrities without political experience, like Mr. Swann, should be able to run for office, and that a huge financial problem looms from increasing public pension costs.

Mr. Rendell said the problem with Mr. Swann isn't that he's a rookie running for office but that his business tax cut ideas "won't work. The state can't afford them. It's not that he has no ideas, it's that he has bad ideas.''

Listen In: One of the questions for the candidates revolved around school safety in the tragic aftermath of the attack on an Amish school near the town of Nickel Mines, Lancaster County, this week. Lynn Swann responds to the question about school violence. Ed Rendell responds to the question of school violence.

Mr. Rendell charged that if Mr. Swann carried out all the tax reductions he has proposed -- cutting the corporate net income tax from 9.99 percent to 5.99, cutting the personal income tax, eliminating the inheritance tax -- it would cost the state about $6 billion (out of a total budget of $26 billion).

He also said Mr. Swann's property tax cut plan "would be a disaster'' because it would need a constitutional amendment, taking years to accomplish, and would consume most of the annual state budget surplus.

Rising pension costs are expected to add $1 billion to the state budget by 2011 unless steps are taken to moderate them, Mr. Rendell said.

"It's a future time bomb,'' he said. "It would be devastating for the state and for school districts'' whose pension costs would also rise.

"Something has to be done. It should have been done already,'' Mr. Swann said.

Other highlights from the debate:

Mr. Swann accused the governor of a serious conflict of interest by providing over $40 million in state funds for a Comcast office building in Philadelphia, when Mr. Rendell works as a TV sports commentator for Comcast after Philadelphia Eagles games in the fall.

Mr. Rendell said, "We didn't try to hide anything. We fully disclosed it,'' and he gave the $20,000 salary he received from the broadcasts to charity. Mr. Rendell said helping Comcast saved at least 2,000 jobs for the state.

Mr. Rendell said he would support a statewide law banning smoking in workplaces, including restaurants, bars and casinos. "The evidence of the danger of secondhand smoke is overwhelming,'' he said.

Mr. Swann said he would support a smoking ban in most workplaces, but not bars, casinos or restaurants. He said such places should be posted with signs warning patrons that smoking was permitted inside and they could make their own choice.

The final debate is next week in Philadelphia. Mr. Swann is hoping exposure from the debates will help him cut into Mr. Rendell's double-digit lead in polls.