HARRISBURG -- Strong-willed legislative bosses such as House Speaker John Perzel, Democratic leader H. William DeWeese and Senate President Pro Tem Bob Jubelirer didn't become successful by sharing power with the rank and file.

The leaders pick the chairmen of powerful committees, such as those on spending, taxing and crime fighting; they dole out millions in "leadership account" funds for their members' pet projects, demanding loyalty in return; they cut the staffs of recalcitrant colleagues; and decide which bills move forward and which die without a peep.

But now, a few lower-echelon lawmakers in the House, emboldened by the continuing public outcry for change in the wake of the July 2005 pay raise fiasco, are trying to wrest power from the leaders' hands.

They include Reps. Daryl Metcalfe, R-Cranberry, Ted Harhai, D-Monessen, David Steil, R-Bucks, and Kathy Manderino, D-Philadelphia.

Their suggested reforms include:

Requiring all bills to be in final form at least three days before any vote is taken, "so we have some time to reflect on proposed legislation and know what we're voting on," said Mr. Harhai.

For bills acted on during the three-week lame-duck sessions, held in November of even-numbered years, requiring a two-thirds majority to pass them instead of just 51 percent.

A ban on voting on bills between midnight and 8 a.m.

Requiring special-interest lobbyists to register and disclose their spending.

The rank-and-file members have a hard road in front of them, but Ms. Manderino learned a thing or two about legislative power from an expert. Her father, the late Speaker James Manderino of Westmoreland County, ruled with a strong hand in the 1980s when the Democrats ran the House.

Mr. Steil said the idea is to dilute the power of the current leaders and make the process more open to public scrutiny.

Mr. Metcalfe agreed, saying too many important decisions are hashed out in closed-door meetings of a handful of leaders. That was the case with the 2006-07 budget, put together by leaders a few days before it was approved just after midnight on July 2.

"Leaders have been using up the grace and trust extended to them by House members by supporting one issue after another that went against the will of the majority of our caucus," Mr. Metcalfe said.

This bipartisan House group includes at least 59 lawmakers from both parties, but it isn't the only new group seeking change.

Another group of legislators, who dubbed themselves the Jefferson Reform Initiative, formed last November and is pushing such ideas as term limits for committee chairmen and reducing the size of the Legislature, now at 203 House members and 50 senators. The Jefferson group also wants to eliminate votes on important issues during the lame-duck sessions.

"There comes a time when the rank and file decide they no longer want two or three people to be making all the decisions. They want it to be shared," said Marc Stier, a political scientist at Temple University.

The move for change in the Legislature has been greatly aided by voters themselves, who ousted 17 incumbents in the May primary, including the top two Republican senators, Mr. Jubelirer and Majority Leader David Brightbill of Lebanon.

The Manderino-Steil-Metcalfe group plans to work through the summer to refine its proposals and attract enough support for passage in the fall.

"We have good strength in numbers and we have the public with us to move this forward," Ms. Manderino said.

The rank-and-file lawmakers would not, however, answer one key question -- does Speaker Perzel have too much power now?

He is a moderate Republican from the big city -- Philadelphia -- who gets along politically with Democratic Gov. Ed Rendell. As such, Mr. Perzel often seems out of step with his House GOP caucus, who are mostly social and economic conservatives from rural areas and small towns that oppose most of Mr. Rendell's policies.

Perzel aide Beth Williams said her boss is willing to listen to ideas from all members "from the most senior member to the newest freshman." But his answers don't always please everyone, she added.

"Leadership is about making tough decisions. Speaker Perzel understands you aren't going to have a lot of friends when you're a leader," Mrs. Williams said. "His door is always open."

This isn't the first time underlings have tried to wrest greater power from their leaders, but it is the first time there is so much support for the effort, said Mr. Steil, who was part of a failed push for House reform in the mid-1990s.

"We have a lot of younger members now and they want to be part of the process," he said. "We've had more issues come before us without members having all the time they would like to consider them."

One good example was the property tax relief measure passed last month. It was hammered out largely during private leadership meetings with little input from the rank and file, Mr. Steil said.

Another sore point is some actions by the House Rules Committee, which is run by the leaders. It often guts a bill and inserts completely unrelated language before sending the bill to the House floor for a vote. That makes it hard to know what is being voted on.

The House reformers want Rules Committee members to be selected at random instead of being appointed by party leaders. They also want to prevent the Rules Committee from making substantial amendments to a bill.

The Manderino-Steil-Metcalfe group also seeks to prevent House votes from occurring between midnight and 8 a.m. or from being amended on the same day they are voted on.

Besides Mr. Metcalfe and Mr. Harhai, Western Pennsylvania legislators who are part of the bipartisan House reform group are Paul Costa, D-Wilkins; Peter Daley, D-California; Frank Dermody, D-Oakmont; Brian Ellis, R-Butler; David Levdansky, D-Forward; Mark Mustio, R-Moon; John Pallone, D-New Kensington; Joseph Petrarca, D-Vandergrift; Harry Readshaw, D-Carrick; Jess Stairs, R-Mount Pleasant; Tom Stevenson, R-Mt. Lebanon; and Thomas Tangretti, D-Greensburg.