Should the students involved in creating the Top 25 list be identified. Should the Mt. Lebanon School District mete out punishment? Or should it be handled as a criminal investigation by police? Should the students get a written warning? Be suspended? Expelled? Or punished in another manner, such as community service? Here's what Post-Gazette readers had to say:

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Thursday, April 27

What, "The List" is out again? Is the Post-Gazette afraid to publish it? I'd like to see it, it's been a while since the last one came out ...

Don Miller
Mt. Lebanon Class of '79

My only exposure to this issue has been what was written in the article and reading the responses in this forum. I would, however, like to express some of my opinions on this issue.

First of all, let's put the blame where it belongs. There is more than enough to go around; these young men and women, and their parents all share in the responsibility for this. I can hear the howls of protest now, but please read on before you make your decision on what I have to say. When you have finished you can agree with me or call me a moron, I really don't care. I didn't write this to make anyone feel better about themselves, or make them like me.

Parents need to be parents, not friends or buddies to their kids. Pay attention to what they are doing and how they are dressed. Do you know where your kids are hanging out, and who they are with? What magazines are they reading, what internet sites are they visiting, or television programs they are watching. Have you looked at their Myspace page on the internet? Do you ever go into your child's room to just look around, see what posters they have on their walls or what is on the nightstand next to their bed. Are you so afraid of invading their privacy that you wouldn't go in their room without their permission?

I challenge you to stand outside any high school in the area when classes let out, or go to your local mall, and look at the way the girls dress. I graduated high school in 1976, supposedly the height of the sexual revolution and sexual freedom for women. Believe me the way the girls dress now makes the girls from the seventies look like nuns. Miniskirts, hip huggers, midriffs, thongs, and spiked heels. Some of these girls look like they are dressed for the dance pole in the strip club, not high school. Don't get me wrong, I believe that people should be able to dress the way they want to, but think of it this way, can you, or would you dress that way to go to work. Of course not, it would be highly inappropriate for the situation. Admitting that, why in the world would you allow your daughter to dress that way to go attend school? Would you take your daughter to the zoo, rub steak sauce on her and send her into the lion's cage.

I don't intend to let the boys off the hook either. As fathers we need to teach, and enforce the idea that women are to be respected. Ask your son, how he would feel if his sister, or in the future, his daughter, were included on this list or one just like it. If he does not react angrily to this then you are not doing your job as a father. The fact is that these girls are most likely someone's sister, and definitely are someone's daughter. Ask him how he would like to find a list like this that was circulated at the office where his mother works, and she was included in the top 25, complete with descriptions of her body and supposed sexual acts she would perform. Would this make him proud, or angry?

I understand that acceptance is the most important thing to kids in high school. I understand that they are experiencing more freedom than they have ever had. But we must teach them that there are limits to what you should do to gain acceptance. That losing respect for yourself and compromising your integrity is not the way to go to be accepted. Let us teach them to lead, not follow blindly, to stand up and speak out against this kind of behavior. A great man once said, "Along with freedom comes great responsibility." In many ways we have lost sight of the responsibility that comes with the freedom we have. We must remind ourselves and our children that a great price was paid by many so that we could have this freedom. Let us not disrespect their sacrifices by abrogating the responsibility that comes with that freedom.

Kurt Stewart
Pittsburgh

It looks to me like a lot of people have way too much time on their hands. These boys, and all the readers posting.

This is all making mountains out of mole-hills. Front page news, I think not.

Rich McGervey
Charleston, W.Va. (Pittsburgh native)

As a parent, a Mt. Lebanon resident, and a former student of the Mt. Lebanon School District I feel compelled to respond to the latest media-hype concerning yet another minor issue that the media and certain adults are now attempting to make into a major issue. So we have some teenagers that compiled a list of other teenagers that rated them according to their physical bodies and perhaps their sexual prowess? Although I do not condone this behavior, I also do not feel this warrants front page coverage for the Post-Gazette! Is this really the state of our social conscious, that a juvenile list makes the front page of a supposedly large newspaper?

For the adults that are appalled by such conduct I have to ask you, "Can you please return to reality and get your head out of the sand?" Unfortunately, I hear crude conversations on the same level as this list by both male and female students at our swimming pools, movie theatres, malls, the parks, uptown, and everywhere else in the community. Do you parents not visit your kids "my-space" and see some of the filth that's written by both boys AND girls? I remember a similar list at the high school when I was a student over 25 years ago and it was compiled by some high school girls about boys! Thankfully, we all had thicker skins back in those days and the media and the adults had other pressing matters to deal with. This is nothing more then juvenile behavior, bad decisions on the part of the students involved in creating this list, and more then likely, some bad decisions on the part of some of the females that made the list.

This is behavior is not criminal, but an opportunity for parents to use this as a life-lesson to their kids. Unfortunately, I've read that some parents are prepared to take "legal action". That's the community spirit! Teach your kids that as adults the only way to get issues resolved, is to go to court. Whatever happened to sitting down with your child, or in this case, young adults and having a discussion? Also, for some of the "appalled and offended" adults that I have spoken to, I am certain other thin-skinned adults like yourself would find the language you have used in describing the teenagers who wrote this list just as appalling. How hypocritical of you.

Lastly, in the event it is accurate that this list also contained a ratings system on how some of the young adult females performed sexually, then perhaps the parents of these young women may want to sit down with their daughters, as opposed to their attorneys and have a conversation that if you choose to make promiscuous decisions, then be prepared for the consequences of your poor decisions.

Punishment should be the all-inclusive responsibility of the parents and no one else including the school district. Anyone who thinks otherwise has obviously crossed the line of sheer ignorance and has my vote for village idiot.

It's easy to make a mountain out of a mole hill. You just add dirt.

Patrick W. Shields
Mt. Lebanon

Wow, newsflash!!! "Teenage boys rate their fellow female classmates." Who cares! We were all teenagers once. This is all being blown way out of proportion.

Tom Brubach
Pittsburgh, Pa.

This is not a criminal matter. The students involved should be disciplined by the principal and that is it. Once again, a situation has been blown out of proportion by the media, the school board, and the school district. I bet most of the girls on the list are honored to be on the list.

MSgt John White
NJANG
Retention Office Manager
formerly of Brookline

See what happens when the Steelers aren't in season and everyday, ordinary Pittsburghers, are made to endure a hopeless baseball team, stupid news like this makes the front page.

People, we are at war, gas prices are through the roof and the City of Pittsburgh can't manage its finances, and what gets us all up in a fuss??????? A stupid, teenage prank. Priorities people, priorities!!!!!!!!

Peter Majeski
New York

I have to believe that the level of outrage a person feels about this list is in direct correlation to their age and maturity level. As a 53 year old female, I find the idea of this list crude & disgusting. I also find RAP music videos on MTV crude & disgusting, and derrogatory to ALL women, along with most of the programming on MTV, Victoria"s Secret TV ads offensive (What is Sexy?), and a woman's need for breast enhancement surgery most offensive. But then again, that's me. Perhaps when these "children" reach maturity they will also be disgusted & appalled by society's need to market, sell and rank everything based on sex and understand the outrage.

Martha
Canonsburg

I think Mt. Lebanon's Top 25 List of 2006 falls under the same auspices as the Danish cartoons of the Prophet Mohammad.

If a publication is going to run with a controversial item, the readers should at least be able to determine for themselves the volition of the item at hand.

Rollo Tomasi
Bloomfield

I think the boys are getting a lesson in "actions have consequences." If the boys think this has been blown up all out of proportion, then what do they think they did to the girls' reputation. It's one thing to rank girls on their attractiveness, but this list, and I did see the extremely boorish and prurient list, made it closer to a ranking of "who's the best looking and/or potential whore."

It isn't criminal, but it is rather misogynist. If what is listed about these girls is false, there certainly could be some slander suits. They have given the school and the community a black eye. I trust that the board will toughen the student conduct rules for the school.

The boys should have their names published in the PG, and then suspended.

Seniors should have their graduation dates moved back to next fall. That way they can't matriculate to Duke until next spring.

Jeremy Winthrop
Pittsburgh

If the boys made this list outside of or inside school ...Where are the parents? This is an issue for parents not school officials. These boys don't know the first thing about respect to other people and that is taught in the home. How dare the media or any one else blame the school district. The blame all goes to the parents for not teaching respect!!!

Margaret Peters
Belle Vernon

Having graduated from Mt. Lebanon myself and having a brother and sister who currently attend Mt. Lebanon, I find it discouraging that this makes front-page news while other problems inside the Mt. Lebanon School District are pushed aside. While I do not agree with the ethnic slurs or derogatory comments that have been put to paper, let's all remember that these things are talked about at parties, football games and social events throughout the year. The authors of this list clearly made a mistake, but let's also remember that we were once kids, too, and let the punishment fit accordingly. Criminal or civil penalties are over the line.

Chris
Mt Lebanon

I would venture to say that there is probably not one name on that list of a shy, quiet girl who dresses conservatively. In high school, it is all about dressing to get the opposite sex's attention. If you play the game, you have to be able to handle all the consequences that come with it. I would suggest that these girls who feel they are being abused should dress more conservatively and their names would be removed from the list immediately. If you can't handle the fire, then get out of the kitchen!

Judi
St. Louis

I commend the Post-Gazette for not publishing any names. However, I do not commend the PG for splashing this across the front page. Not because I'm ashamed to see my alma mater being called out for something so tasteless happening within the student body, but because I have a feeling that the PG would print the details of the list (with student names deleted, of course) if it felt it would sell more papers.

I would think there are a few other issues going on in Pittsburgh, the U.S. and our world today that demand more attention from Pittsburgh's only legitimate newspaper than the disgusting ramblings of adolescent boys.

Sex sells, but the PG doesn't have to go down that road.

Charlie Kennedy
Class of 1987
Washington, D.C.

Sadly, it's a sign of the times .... lack of morality, lack of respect for others and lack of respect for self.

Turn on any channel any time of the day, listen to the radio, open any magazine, look at some of the billboards along our highways. Everything is about human sexuality. Furthermore, visit any public school and see thong underwear peaking out from low-cut blue jeans, see ample cleavage beneath low-cut, tight shirts. It's all about being "hot." Gone are the days where teenage boys refer to girls as "cute, pretty or beautiful".

Public displays of human sexuality have become commonplace, including the classroom.

Unfortunately, BOTH the list creators as well as the 25 females are victims of our society. What do we expect? Really now.

Denise Hathazy-Davis
Cranberry

The uproar about this list is utterly ridiculous. If this list was found in a city school (which I am sure there are and at all high schools around the country), it would not be a big deal because it is not the beloved suburbs. But because it is in Mt. Lebanon, it is being viewed as a crime. People tend to forget that they were teenagers and did stupid things. I am not condoning the statements or actions that the list made or letting the boys and girls involved off of the hook for the incident. Let's face it, folks, you're not with your children every hour of the day, and just because they act one way around you does not mean they act that way all of the time. If anything, this should just be a wake-up call to the parents to pay attention to their children instead of buying them things to divert it.

C. Whitfield
Atlanta (former Pittsburgh resident)

As a father of six daughters, I can empathize with the pique. Assuming we know the perpetrators, I think some punishment along the lines of 25 individually unique and personalized 500-word essays, written by each offender and addressed to each offended female and her parent(s) would be apt punishment for boorish behavior.

By the way, I'd have the offenders' parents compile the listing of 25 suitable female-oriented topics -- with Mother's Day coming soon, I wouldn't want to be one of the offenders!

Chuck Waszczak
Enon, Ohio

What's in the water in the South Hills? Pittsburgh's wackiest school high jinks seem to concentrate south of the Liberty Tubes.

A decade or so ago, two Keystone Oaks staffers were discovered in a romantic tryst at the Mt. Lebanon Galleria. Scandalous!

A few months back we had the jilted Baldwin school director drug and burn her ex-boyfriend. Shocking!

Upper St. Clair had its international scholars program railroaded by trecherous school directors, then reinstated by public outcry. No sex angle, but embarrassing nonetheless.

Now this tempest-in-a-C-cup in Mt. Lebanon. Hilarious!

Hunker down, O ye of Bethel Park, South Park and Peters ... your day could be coming!

Dan Skantar
Oakdale

"If a girl slept with 10 guys in high school, that's her business and nobody else's."

Actually, it is also the business of the 10 guys whom she slept with.

Kevin
Pittsburgh

Regarding the story about the list of "hot" girls in Mt.Lebanon: I have the perfect solution for punishment. The list of boys' names who put this list together should be circulated among the girls. Girls, make sure these guys don't date in Mt. Lebanon for the next four years. Spread the word. Boycott. It's your American right. Hit them where it hurts.

In addition, I think a few classes regarding social behavior and its consequences should be inserted into the curriculum. Girls, I know it's cool to be "hot," but I was a former "hottie," and my clothing and behavior led to a lot of sexual abuse before I realized what I was doing. I was just a dumb girl looking "cool" because I had a lot to flaunt. Unfortunately, no one told me I looked like a "lady of the night," and teasing guys could lead to a lot of grief. As for the boys involved -- a mandatory six-week after-school or Saturday class in diversity awareness wouldn't hurt these guys a bit. It's what they will really need to know when they leave the little pond named Mt. Lebanon.

Linda G
Pittsburgh

This story is way overblown. I am sure lists such as this exist in just about every high school. Heck, I can remember an episode of "Home Improvement" having a list about the guys. If there are no lists, then the guys talk about who is hot and who is not. The girls do the same thing with the boys. Perhaps the girls on the list need to clean up their act and the parents need to be parents. Sometimes the truth hurts. Why is it that any time something happens in a rich-kid school it makes the news? This story and the Upper St. Clair IBC program are local issues and not worthy of front-page news. Isn't this what the South section is for? Maybe put some stories about poorer schools and how the students there are not getting the same education because their parents were not blessed with money. Heck, maybe run some stories about kids in these lower-class schools who are fighting for and succeeding to get an education.

Scott
Washington, Pa.

I'm sure that the girls are embarrassed by the list, and embarrassment seems like the end of your life when you're in high school, but come on -- ruining the boys' high school careers over a list? Give me a break. They are boys and girls! They do not fully understand the consequences of stupidity. If this is the worst thing that happens to these girls in their lives, they should feel lucky.

As for the parents ... have them visit a school that has metal detectors and police guards at every entrance, drugs in the restrooms and where rape happens. Then we'll see if they feel like suing over a silly little list.

Jen
Pittsburgh

Two disturbing trends in the postings: (1) blaming how teenage girls dress, which is peripheral (at best) to the issue, places blame where none exists and echoes the old "blame the victim" approach in a sex crime cases; and (2) repeated positing about the ACLU and the invocation of First Amendment rights, which don't protect slanderous and libelous speach. While I doubt the young mens' actions are criminal, they are indeed reprehensable, and any attempt to defend them is equally so. The district, the parents and the students should use this entire blunder as a learning opportunity. One parent who is quoted in the article has the right idea -- teaching the children the consequences of their actions and how when something is written down, it can be quickly spread and easily traced back to you, and it will stick around for a very long time. Punishing the students is perhaps not proper; however, showing the children why such behavior is, at the very least, ill-advised, is a lesson they could all benefit from.

Liz
Mt. Lebanon

I am shocked that two lawyers would take what is essentially a school prank and turn it into an opportunity for self-promotion and grandstanding. What a waste of time.

Brian
Pittsburgh

While I do think these boys took the list a little too far, I can't help but think what a world of double standards we live in.

As more and more stories come out about older female teachers taking advantage of their younger male students, society seems to think of these instances as a joke, with a punchline on every comedy show. When you switch the roles, older males taking advantage of younger girls, these men are labeled sexual offenders and basically barred from the community. Please undestand that I am not condoning these horrible crimes.

And when I was a senior in high school the girls in our class made a similar list ranking all the boys. The result: nobody cared. We have all seen what can happen if the roles are reversed.

In today's world of equal rights why do we turn our heads and laugh when the boys are the victims and persecute the accused when the girls are the victims?

Daniel Kabala
Morningside

Yes, this should be investigated and punishment meted out. To dismiss it as a prank is inexcusible. Passing over this act only results in more of the same actions. Perhaps it will also tell the girls, the way they dress and act, will cause such things to happen. Punishment should be given as community service.

Connie Rosskamp
Denver, N.C.

While I don't think the creators of the list did anything illegal, I do think they need to be punished or disciplined in some manner.

What bothers me most about this discussion is the sexist responses. "Boys will be boys" is not an excuse. Telling the women to "keep their legs shut" is not an excuse. What about the boys keeping their pants up? Come on. If those girls at Mt. Lebo ARE having sex with multiple partners, the guys must be doing the same. Hello, double standard. Not only are the girls being judged unfairly, their reputations are being slandered in the media and at the school.

It's time for this double standard to end, and the first step is for those boys to learn how to be respectful of women.

Emily Best
Highland Park

I do not think these actions were criminal at all. Poor taste, yes. We live in a world where from sixth grade on kids are pretty much left to fend and entertain themselves, so they watch a lot of TV that is just flooded with sex and images of females being treated poorly. Now, I do not think that these girls are the victims, either. I am sure the list is not just a bunch of lies about how these girls are engaging in sexual activities. Nor do I think that they care that they are on this list. Maybe the people in Mt. Lebo need to spend less time counting their piles of money and spend more time raising their kids (both boys and girls) to be respectful of their community and themselves.

Amy Elliott
St. Louis, Mo

I was appalled to read that teenage boys ranked teenage girls. I couldn't believe that anyone would rank a person on their physical features. Then, much to my dismay, I did some research on my own. Here is what I have found.

1. "The Not-So-Top 10 list of men we hate to look at" by Toshiba Reynolds, The Post Chronicle

2. "The Top 100 Unsexiest Men," Inside Entertainment

3. "List of the Least (Men)," The Washington Post

4. "Sexiest Man Alive," People Magazine

These young men have started an epidemic; women are now ranking men based on their looks. I know teenage girls would never do that. Oh, wait, yes, they do. They're just smart enough not to put it in Football Draft Preview format.

If the parents of these young ladies are upset at comments made about their daughters' sexual promiscuity or drug use, I would suggest that they may want to talk with their daughters. I knew girls like that when I was in high school, and every one of their parents thought they were saints. Just like mine.

Adrian
Allison Park

What a sad state that our children, such as the 16-year-old quoted outside of school, think that this is "kids just being kids." I can say I don't want my kids around those types of people. I believe in moral standards and ethical behavior, and there is a consequence for your actions.

Attorney Difenderfer is dishing out his own intimidation by saying: "Truth is a defense in a defamation case, something parents should consider if they file a civil suit." I wonder where our kids learned to be so intimidating?

If the line is not drawn here, where will it be drawn? After one of the students is attacked? Or raped? These students will eventually grow up and enter the real world. Will they find this type of behavior and commentary acceptable in the work place? Sexual harassment is just that. It cannot be taken lightly. Even from a teenager.

Hold the boys accountable and be swift and severe.

Tamara Farren
Canonsburg

I am outraged and offended by some of the comments in this response column. I am a 25-year-old male with no children, and I am amazed that some people would not consider this list a form of sexual harassment. I will admit that when I was in high school, not long ago, we had lists of girls that we thought were attractive and whom we would love to be with. That is normal. However, when you start making sexually explicit comments, then distributing those sexually explicit comments and making them public, you are crossing the line.

Our youth has been poisoned by a rotten society that makes it acceptable to speak about women this way. If these girls have committed some of the things that are on this list, then shame on them for allowing themselves to be vulnerable to dumb adolescent boys. But do not say that it is OK to publicly humiliate them for doing a private act.

When are we going to start teaching our kids that they are responsible for their own actions? When are we going to start being responsible role models and being responsible for our own actions?

Jeff Kesser
Moon

Do any of the Mt. Lebo parents even remember what it was like to be young? Get a grip. A tempest in a teapot.

Sal L.
Pittsburgh

I was all prepared to write in and state that although disgusting, this "Top 25 List" was nothing criminal. I still believe this to be true. I also believe that the school needs to take action when it comes to the "authors" of this list and give them some sort of punishment that fits this crime.

In school detention (not suspension, since that punishment is more like a vacation).

Some kind of volunteering that would show them the PROPER way to treat people. Say, volunteering at a shelter or something. Let them see what life is like outside of their sheltered community.

What disgusts me in this situation is that it actually made headlines in the newspaper. You've got to be kidding me! There are kids shot every day in neighborhoods and drugs run rampant in different school districts (Mt. Lebanon, included), and this is what we're talking about? Between this and the big media hype on the Upper St. Clair IB program, I no longer question why the less-fortunate districts don't get anywhere!

And then I started reading comments sent in by readers and just have so much more to say!

Even more disgusting are the responses by some of the people who have written in about this matter. Greg Wagner, a 1965 graduate of Mt. Lebanon, wrote that he'd donate money to the authors because of how amusing and funny it is! And a Kevin M., from Pittsburgh, wrote that these girls must be on this list for a reason, and it should now teach them to "keep their legs closed"!

It's comments from "adult" men like these (and these are just two examples) that are reasons why the school (not the police) should take EXTREME action, by way of punishment, on these little boys who think it is so cool to disgrace girls in this manner. If they do not learn now that it is not OK to treat people like this, they will be the idiots writing in comments like Mr. Wagner and Kevin M.!

And lastly, and most importantly, the girls mentioned in this list, and all girls for that matter, need to learn that this isn't cool, these boys aren't cool, and they, as women, are far too good to let themselves to be treated in this manner. The school should also step up and give these girls, and all females in their district, some seminars on self-esteem and how to deter bullying, etc. This goes for every school system, because we all know this sort of thing, although maybe not written in a list, happens everywhere, in some way or another.

I just still can't believe the obnoxious people who wrote in and made excuses for this list. They, themselves, should do a self-check on their own ethics. Yes, boys will be boys, but that doesn't mean that anyone has to excuse and tolerate it.

Megan Vaites
Pittsburgh

Mt. Lebanon, get over yourself. Your community is not as well-insulated and antiseptic as you think.

Drugs run rampant throughout your high school, but you won't see any public outrage about that. Instead, focus on the innocuous -- that's more your style.

The amount of media coverage and public attention this "story" has received galls me. If this is indicitive of what people are truly concerned with, then God help us all.

Larry Ciptak
Scott

Parents:

It is time for parents to start being parents and take responsibility for their kids! You don't think this type of issue hasn't been happening across all schools or communities? Get your head out of the sand, parents, and get with the program and connect with your kids. We have lost all forms of morality in this country. The violators should be punished and held accountable for their actions in criminal or civil court. It is time to take hard and swift action. Most parents would probably say, not my kid, or it is all in harmless fun or a prank, or no big deal. Actions like these can destroy a life of a young person for good. The schools and authorities need to start taking hard action on these youth now. It is time to send a message that these types of things will NOT be tolerated.

I blame the parents and adults for always setting a bad example for youth today! It is the adults who also need to be held accountable for not being excellent role models for our children.

Don Lewis
Moon

I think that this may be the most obvious example of a lack of responsibilty on the parents part. Look at what your daughters are wearing and maybe you should keep tabs on the girls, too. This is a complete joke for parents to be complaining about, there are multiple girls that are pregnant at Upper Saint Clair High School and a list about 25 girls possible actions. I am a student at Mt. Lebanon and I think this is blown way out of proportion. And for the parents flipping out, it is not the kid's who wrote it that are to blame. It happens to be you for the lack of attention you pay to your daughter in the morning. If there is any punishment it should most definitely be pointed in the girls' directions for dressing and acting the way they do.

Dan Shorts
Mount Lebanon

This whole situation is ridiculous. The List was not made or distributed in school so it has nothing to do with the school. It's not criminal, its just a bunch of kids being kids.

If our biggest problem is a list of the hottest girls in school, then everyone needs to calm down and back off. Mt. Lebanon parents will always want and need something to complain about, there weren't any lies on the list, all information about the girls was true as far as we know and there's something called freedom of speech and freedom of press even though this was not official press.

Involving the police is ridiculous. At the most parents should be notified and the boys get a slap on the wrist and whatever their parents deem necessary. Just because "people have sued for less" doesn't make it right. Parents calling for resignations of school board members for not acting the way they want them to on this issue is ridiculous, they're doing their jobs, are you doing yours as a parent?

You're so concerned with blaming everyone else when you need to sit down and actually talk with your daughters about this. This only proves how parents today have lost sight of what's important, they forget to be actual parents and they just sue and blame everyone else for their children's problems when the real people at fault are themselves.

This is all about this town being politically correct and ignoring the true flaws. I understand that the boy who started this list personally apologized to the father who is pressing charges and since the father had then found out his identity decided to press charges.

This father was also on KDKA news and had his face blurred and did not want his name released, obviously he's not a man of conviction if he doesn't want his face or name associated with his claims. I think this whole issue just reveals the real problem with this town and the people of it, specifically the parents.

Matthew Schmid
Mt. Lebanon High School

Talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill. Get a life.

Leo Kennedy
Venetia, Pa.

When I telephoned home this evening from Providence, where I attend school,I was greatly disturbed by the news of this Top 25 List. Is it shocking? No. Surprising? No. Deplorable and inexcusable? Yes. I worry less about the actual list itself at this point, but about the long lasting effect this potentially has on the many women listed. While many people agree that it is distasteful or even horrendous, they are slow to insist that we take a stand. This is sexual harassment, especially if allegations that events took place on school grounds that led to the compilation of this list. Unfortunately, this nonsense doesn't go away at the college level either, but women are much less tolerable of that kind of behavior.

One man wrote that we should investigate into whether the sexual acts described were true. I could not believe he likened this to politicians leaking information. Is that the example you want to set for impressionable young men and women? It's fine to degrade, humiliate and embarrass someone if it's in the name of truth? This publication was hardly a matter of leaking the truth. It was an act of male chauvinism and insecurity, a need for young men to gain acceptance and status within their social circle by picking on someone else. As I recall many locker room stories are greatly exaggerated and I find it repulsive that we should focus on whether the stories are true or not. No young woman, regardless of her sexual activities, deserves to have her body, weight, ethnicity or sexual skills discussed and critiqued.

I don't doubt that these boys never meant for it to become public or to have caused the damage it has, but that is a lesson they must learn. We should not condone, defend or tolerate this kind of ridicule and degradation. I would like to see the women, both students and mothers, take a stand in the community and within the school to not tolerate this type of treatment. As long as girls continue to pick on each other and label each oother sluts and whores etc., or standby and laugh while men mock their fellow female classmates, this will continue.

Had this not become public, it would not have had such devastating results. Students should be very aware that in this day, the internet makes nothing private and once something is put in writing you can be held accountable for its contents.

How would these men appreciate a female-made list discussing their body parts or performance? I dont necessarily think these young men should be punished criminally, but they stopped exerting their rights when they infringed on the rights of these young women. I hope that the women at this school have the confidence and courage to not allow this objectification. As for the young men, I wish they would think about what they would do to a young man who did something like this to their sister, girlfriend, mother etc.

Natalie S.
Pittsburgh

As a graduate of Mt. Lebanon in 1994, this does not surprise me and the response of the parents is very typical. If a list of this nature was found in a school district with less money and community clout, this would not be an issue.

The parents and community of Mt. Lebanon should be happy that they don't have to deal with people being shot or the subjects of other violent crimes as in other schools in this city. You should also remember that the person/persons involved in making this list are minors. The first response to this article suggested that possible criminal and/or civil charges be filed is absolutely absurd.

Maybe some of us don't remember high school, but I guarantee you that lists like this have been going on for a long time. Now mind you I am not condoning this list, but the only reason a big deal is being made out of this is again because of the money of the community that it occurred.

Everyone who went to high school is aware that much in high school is a popularity contest. Everything from Homecoming Court to Student Council to Prom King/Queen are all in fact lists and rankings by the student themselves. These are all lists and rankings of some type or another. So it should be kept in mind that the subject of this list isn't appropriate, but should ranking our children be done at all. Also, are parents by condoning the other lists/awards for the above listed accomplishments basically encouraging their children in this type of behavior.

John
Pittsburgh

These are high school kids, doing high school things. This didn't harm anyone through the effect is that they can no longer show their face in school.

If these girls were listed in the top 25, that should be considered a compliment. On the other hand, derogatory terms and racial names are not as easy to accept.

This is not a matter for police to be involved, that would be ridiculous. This was a small newsletter amoung the students that didn't harm anyone, period. The kids involved weren't actually committing a crime, they were exercising their First Amendment.

The publishers also weren't the only students involved, are administraters or police going to involve the kids who participated in the votings of the list (probably not). This is a situation that is being blown out of proportion, but the students should face a very small punishment, possibly a one day suspension.

Aaron
Pittsburgh

The fact that this is front page material is a monumental joke. I haven't been removed from high school for a very long time (less than 6 years), but things like this occurred all the time.

A lot of the girls knew about these things too, and I never heard or experienced any complaints from them. In fact, I discovered a far worse list in a Study Hall my junior year, that was in fact compiled by a female student.

It listed every person in our grade, then was followed by the matter of their virginity. Whether they where known to have had sex, known to have not, or (if unknown) the guess of either. The descriptions on that list would definitely have to outdo this one. You know what I thought when I saw this list though? No big deal ... there were far worse things going on all around me.

Drug use in the bathrooms, alcohol abuse in far more places than teenage parties, even student/teacher engaging in activities that reflect a late night Cinemax movie. A student in my school once even compiled a hit list, and was not charged with a crime. What do you think is worse? A hotness ranking on a piece of paper, or a name on a list of death?

Rick
Pittsburgh

I am wondering what consequences would be expected if this list had been circulated around the Mt. Lebanon pool this summer instead of the lunch room. Would the municipality and the lifeguards be responsible for dealing with the kids and their horrible little list? While I find the whole incident reprehensible and unfortunate, the facts remain that no laws appear to have been broken, and there is no proof (thus far) that the list was written on school property. The students involved should certainly have to pay the consequences for their actions, and the school should deal with punishment for acts committed on school grounds, such as the voting for those on the list. However, calling for the termination of the superintendent (especially after last year's issues), the prinicipal and a variety of other school employees seems to be overkill.

While the principal's comments may seem a bit "cold," he can not possibly control what each and every student writes down on a piece of paper. Was this list hand written or computer generated on a school computer? There are hundreds, possibly thousands of pieces of paper circulating thru a school building on any given day. Teachers and prinicipals can not be held accountable for the contents of all the papers in the school. I wish the prinicipal would have responded with more concern and compassion -- but do we really need to fire him for this?

Patricia Klein
Mt. Lebanon

I'm not the least surprised that this list exists. I had heard rumors of similar lists existing at Lebo during my four years of high school -- perhaps I'm only imagining this, but I thought that a list of boys ranked by girls existed at one point.

Megan Donley stated that the parents of the girls on the list should be outraged, and the parents of the boys who created it should be ashamed.

This is exactly the problem with Mt. Lebanon! Even though the success of our high school is largely due to parental and community involvement, the fact that only parents are talking about how to deal with this issue in any real way disgusts me.

The students are the people who are most affected by this list -- not only the people who are on it and its creators, but also the people who aren't -- whether they suffer from low self-esteem because of it or because all Mt. Lebanon students are now branded as sluts and chauvanist pigs.

The student body of Mt. Lebanon sets its own norms for appropriate behavior, no matter what the administration and our parents say, but I think it's high time we examined what is acceptable among ourselves.

Claire O'Hanlon
Mt. Lebanon High School '05
Los Angeles

As a graduate of Mt. Lebanon High School I am sadly not surprised by the uproar over the "Top 25" list that was published. I am, however, disturbed that this made the front-page of the Post-Gazette's web site.

What these children did, while shameful, was nothing more than write down and vote on what every high school male has done either in their head or during an informal conversation with friends during lunch in making their own top 5, 10, or whatever list. The school district's sole role in it should be to identify the ones primarily responsible for the list's publication and dissemination and to inform their parents, leaving it up to them how to discipline their children.

Finally, let's remind ourselves these are teenagers. This doesn't excuse their actions, but they are not fully rational adults. People calling for lawsuits and criminal action need to take a deep breath and put it in perspective. Much worse could have happened. If this is the worst going on at a public high school, I dare say the administration is lucky. There are many far worse problems in our nations high school's to deal with.

Ira Goldberg
Philadelphia

While the list is not in the best taste, as long as it was not done using school computers, it is NOT a school district problem. If the local police department can find any evidence of wrong doing, they will take action.

The school district is NOT responsible for what may take place off school grounds, even IF students are involved. Where are the parents of the students, both the boys and girls involved? They need to have better control of what their child is involved in.

As for a board member calling for the termination of the administration, wake up and learn PA school law, before you make an A-- out of yourself in the paper again. The incident was turned over to the police, after it was determined it did not happen at the school. It is over. Let it die a quick death, if you have any feelings for the students on the list and their families.

George J.
Mt. Lebanon

As a graduate of Mt. Lebanon High School, I think it's pretty sad that students don't have anything better to do than degrade other students, especially sexually. Have they nothing better to do? Let them have to serve the girls on the list -- carry their lunch trays to and from the tables, clean up after the girls are done eating, carry their books to various classes. apologize at a student assembly to each of the girls and apologize to the student assembly for degrading the school.

Laura Philips
Gainesville, Fla.

I am also a 2005 graduate of Mt. Lebanon High School, and I agree with Kathy Horn (we were in the same homeroom). I also remember lists that circulated the lunch rooms and study halls which listed similar comparisons and created a hierarchy of "hot" girls. A more disturbing fact is that I can even remember lists such as these being created when I attended Jefferson Middle School. Though the lists then were not nearly as malicious, and currently in some cases are racially doragatory and offensive, the point is that acts like these are completely unacceptable. The students involved may not be criminally liable due to First Amendment protection, but this does not mean that they have not done anything wrong. They are definitely responsible for the emotional and social damage done to the girls on this list. Through harsh disciplinary action from the school, and a strong stance against treatment like this from girls at the school, these students must be punished. What is more important is that they must be shown that actions like these are not at all tolerable in society (REAL LIFE, not the social bubble that students there live in), and will be dealt with accordingly. This shows a complete lack of maturity and discipline, which I feel has become far too prevalent in this school district. Students like this need to learn from the beginning that treating people in this manner, especially toward women in men's cases, is completely wrong. I hope that not only will school board members take corrective action, but that parents will become aware of a rapidly growing issue that has always negatively, and now outwardly, affected our whole community. Mike Hribik
Mt. Lebanon

How about the FIRST AMMENDMENT RIGHTS. Don't forget the basics. I hope the ACLU is all over this if this goes anywhere.

Rich Begenwald
Pittsburgh

I have to agree with the others stating that this story is so overblown! The "list" is as old as time and has been handed down from class to class. Might I suggest that this is nothing more than "locker room" talk. By the way, there is another list out there too! The girls have one for the guys. Wake up parents...your kids have hormones raging and spring fever has hit. Why not be a parent and talk to your children about what is appropriate behavior and what is not. We truly have become a litigious society.

Mary
Allison Park

The real story here is if it is true, then who cares. True you can publish what you want. If the accusations are false, then that is another story.

First you do have to find out if it is true, are your daughters doing these things. Then it is just a way for the boys to get what they want, what all teens want. If true then do something with your daughters. The teens want an easy way to find out who does what, when, where, howyou as teens, now parents did the same thing only we did not publish it, but in these days of electronic publishing, IM, myspace the info is out there for all to see, here it is just condensed.

Aren't there other problems in Mt. Lebanon and USC to worry about this, or is it another quick, look here, but don't look here, just like what our administration does. Just another booga, booga, do not look at our finacial problems such as giving a buyout to an administrator or something else.

This should of never made it into the news.

Paul S.
Pittsburgh

Here's an idea: How about the Pittsburgh media investigates stories of ~real~ problems that plague schools in lower income school districts like overburdened teachers, lack of parental involvement, and actual crime instead of running sensationalized stories of spoiled rich kids harassing other spoiled rich kids and how mommy and daddy's $700 an hour lawyers are crying to the scandal hungry media. God forbid these parents would have real problems to deal with like not having a job or struggling to feed their family.

Tim
Harrisburg

If high school hormones run amok is going to be a national event or criminal behavior, we may as well close the schools now. How about those poor girls who didn't make the list, this is blatant discrimination against ugly girls. Where is the ACLU!!!

Tom Shaffer
Georgetown

As a mother to a high school daughter, who attended Mt. Lebanon for several years, I am offended this made the news. Even in the 80's, when I was in school, a list was circulated. Guys did it, girls did it. It was not a criminal act. This list may be more crude or detailed, but bottom line is that these sorts of lists have been around for a lot longer than 2006 at Mt. Lebanon. What was this list used for? I think that is the most important question that has gone unanswered. If it was a plan for criminal acts, then prosecute. If not, let it go. I would be willing to bet that this is not the only list going around Mt. Lebanon. What will make the news next, "Little Johnny writes I LOVE SUSIE on his folder?"

Shondra DuBrosky
Baldwin

The incident in Mt Lebanon is a clear representation of the origins of sexual harassment in our society. The young men who created this list are modeling behavior they have learned at some point in their life. This is an example of the philosophy that condones such behavior by saying "boys will be boys". If we allow perpetuation of this attitude, we foster sexual harassment as a societal norm.

We have before us an opportunity to educate an entire high school on respectful, acceptable interpersonal relationship. A criminal response is unlikely to result in a productive outcome. Creative mechanisms for changing behavior by changing attitudes will result in a positive outcome. At the core is communication at the level of the parents, from whom behaviors are learned. All the parents involved have an opportunity to educate their children on proper respect. Teachers can respond in the classroom by confronting the situation in a factual manner, capitalizing on a learning moment.

If the school district responds in fear of reprisal, then the opportunity for change is lost. The principle's remark that he is "looking into" whether this incident is a violation of the sexual harassment policy is alarming. Quite clearly this is sexual harassment. Whether it violates some written policy or not misses the point. Unless he responds actively to his student body with a clear message on sexual harassment, he will have assisted in perpetuating the problem, and missed a chance to educate and model proper behavior.

As a female gynecologist, I daily see the effects on women of "boys will be boys" behavior. The young women involved in this incident have been profoundly affected by an attack on their developing sexuality. The young men are also adversely affected if they are allowed to believe that such behavior is the appropriate manner in which to think about women, negatively impacting their future relationships. These boys made a serious mistake. There must be a consequence to the behavior. However, most importantly, they need to be educated on proper behavior. My hope is that the school district and the families see the tremendous learning opportunity at hand, and respond accordingly.

Irene Frederick, MD
Pittsburgh

I point to parents who fail to teach children about respect, especially the respect that young women have the right to deserve. This education starts at home and must permeate throughout one's life. The excuse, "boys will be boys" ends before we get to this problem.

We have more important things to be concerned with regarding teenagers than their hormone-generated antics. Those authors can be sought out and punished, albeit lightly. Perhaps publicly embarrassing them is sufficient. I don't know about you, but my focus is keeping children away from socially and personally destructive substances such as heroin and cocaine. To bring this to court is a waste of taxpayer money [an all-too-common theme in Allegheny County], and does not admonish families for failing at basic education of their children.

David Marks
Duquesne

Put the paddle back in the hands of the teacher and this and many other problems would be quickly taken care of in the hallways of our schools.

Mark Bonasso
Pittsburgh

The opinions that I've read here are shocking. Girls are being blamed for the way they dress, and boys are being excused because it's not a new idea to publish degrading remarks about girls. I'm wondering if some of the men who've expressed the opinion that it's not anything criminal, or it's been blown out of proportion have ever been humiliated in a public way.

Would they find a publication grading the size of their genitalia, or perhaps insinuated that they were gay, harmful? What if the men found a publication like this written about them, circulated at the workplace?

This isn't innocent fun, or acceptable or in any way okay. Do you want these boys who judge women as only sexual objects to be police officers? Would you like to have one of these young men in the position of power to hire or fire your loved one?

How are these girls now going to be treated by their peers?

While these actions by young boys are common, it's abusive and demeaning and shouldn't go unpunished.

The students involved in the publication, should be recognized and held accountable. Maybe the parents should be held liable, then they would find the actions of these young men a little more disturbing.

Theresa
Meadville

What is disgusting about this story is that people are rebutting with, "Well, this happens in every school."

Does that make it right? Does that make it okay? If your son or daughter made that list or made it on that list, would you be singing the same song?

Until we take a stand against this disgusting act, we are sending a terrible message to our students. That message is: "It's okay to say what you want because the First Amendment will protect you." The boys have acted in poor taste, in an ungentlemanly manner. And that needs addressed. Our children, our students, have lost their manners, their sense of right and wrong. Boys will be boys in a garbage argument.

At what point does my freedom take away from yours? That's what has happened here. The boys who made the list have taken away the 25 girls' freedom.

The Bill of Rights doesn't give us the power to be wrong.

Robert J Spehar Jr.
North Side

To borrow a line from the band Nirvana, "Smells Like Teen Spirit" to me.

Part of growing up is outrageous hormones, discovering girls, and making silly little lists like this. I did it, my friends did it, any men reading what I type probably made some kind of list like this as well. As a father, no doubt this would anger me. But to ask for any type of action on this non-crime, fantasy list is as ridiculous as the list itself. Society has tons of these lists. Perhaps some of the parents will become alarmed to discover their kids on the following websites that compare and rate people according to that certain "appeal" www.hotornot.com, www.ratemybody.com, and pick up the latest People Magazine for 50 more attractive people. Also, is this list really any different than seeing somone eye your kid up and down when you walk into a mall, a restaurant, a movie theater? Face it parents, kids grow up and become appealing to other kids. Just guard who your kids hang around, and face the fact that they are not swinging on swings and playing with Lego toys anymore.

Jason Connor
Oakmont

I was at North Park the other day and and a group of girls no older than 18 were approached by howling teenage boys, who whistled and said some pretty bold, crude things to these young women. Do we arrest these kids too? Some list was created by some kids. What is all the fuss about?

Doug
New Kensington

Are we seriously that concerned with something that has been around forever? Disrespectful, maybeillegal, definitely not. I would be more concerned with what the girl's have done to make it onto the list!

Cynthia
Pittsburgh

If parents do not want their daughters treated like a sex object -- parents should not purchase clothes and allow the daughter to wear clothes that make them look like a sex object!

Take a look at Mount Lebanon Yearbooks (or any other school, for that matter!) -- a fair number of girls -- elementary and high school -- are dressed in inappropriate attire and posed in an inappropriate position for a SCHOOL YEARBOOK!

Yearbook pictures should be head shots with a white background (oh, that's right...can't do that -- it will crush their indivduality) -- the only things that could be graded are cross eyes, big nose & crooked teeth!!!

Parents: get a grip -- your children are YOUR RESPONSILBILITY -- not the school districts -- YOU need to tell YOUR CHILDREN "NO" -- just like your parents told you -- and they must have done something correct since you must have a good job and can afford to live in Mount Lebanon!

Remember, it's not just Mount Lebanon parents -- the Seneca Valley parents EXPECTED the school board to tell their children how many students could ride in the parents car to and from school!!! Parents everywhere need to WAKE UP!!!

CeCe Anderson
North Hills

PS. I would love for the Post-Gazzette to reprint an article from several years ago - about how many children are going to have to die in Allegheny County before parents open their eyes and do something about drugs, alcohol, etc. ... It was a fabulous article -- thank you!!!

This is not something that is criminal, or even deserving civil filing. That might bring facts out in court that are true and embarrass the girls forever. This is just opinion now and will go away as it always does.

It is foolish behavior by teen boys and if not receiving so much publicity would not have had so much effect on the girls.

Next the parents of the 10-year-old girl that are fighting to have their 10 year old wear a very short mini skirt to school will want to complain because boys by age 15 will be talking about her.

Finally, why did one writer use the slur, Scot-Free, to describe getting away with something? That slur insults Scottish people by indicating they are cheap. It's a slur used by minorities, reporters, and others many times. I guess it's OK to demean them because they are not considered minorities even though they are.

Bill
Pittsburgh

I found it rather disturbing the father of one of the girl's made the absurd comment this incident is "the equivalent of a written rape on our daughter." Where exactly is "written rape" listed in Pennsylvania criminal law? Aren't we going just a little bit too far on this one folks?

Even the police know that a crime has not been committed. We can not selectively pick and choose when and where to uphold our First Amendment rights in this country. Those who are so eager to trample on our First Amendment rights always manage to send a cold chill down my spine.

Why did this article even make the front page of the Post-Gazette? This article should have been buried in the back of the paper.

Duane Mengo
Wilkins Township

Good Lord -- punish the kids and move on already.

The students and parents who are so deeply upset over this need to gain some serious perspective. If you think this situation merits this level of outrage, then you must be turning a blind eye to the real atrocities that are happening all over the world -- and in your own city -- every day. Need I remind you there is also a war going on? But go ahead and get upset about the dirty list. I'm sure it's worth the energy.

And I have to whole-heartedly agree with Mr. Fitzpatrick from the South Side, who left an earlier comment. The parent who said that being on this stupid list was "... the equivalent of a written rape on our daughter," should be absolutely ashamed of himself. If he thinks that having some inappropriate things written about you can in any way compare to being the victim of a violent sexual assault, then that's the real crime here.

Gayle Stephenson
Morningside

Instead of questioning the morals of the girls on the list, why aren't we questioning the morals, motives and perhaps intellect of the boys who wrote the list? It's plain and simple: The girls on the list are the victims, not the boys who authored it. Let's stick to the issue. The parents have every right to pursue this matter criminally as the constitution does not protect obscenity, lible or sexual harassment of any individual.

Robin Thompson
Baldwin Township

I have been reading the comments in this forum, and I think some of these "gentlemen" who are blaming the girls, what they wear, and saying "boys will be boys," are really missing the point of why people are so upset. This list represents a more serious problem...a complete and total lack of respect for females. Yes we all fantasize to some point about the opposite sex, especially as adolescents, put when you compile a list and make it public, you have crossed the line! A list like this may lead some of the males in the school to think these girls are "easy," and that could lead to teasing, torment, or even something more serious like rape. Girls this age are already hyper-sensitive about their appearance, and no one has the right to make it worse. The parents of the offending students, as well as those in this forum who are basically condoning the behavior, really need to take a good look in the mirror. Boys should be taught first and foremost that girls are human beings with brains, not objects for them to fawn over. They are to be respected, even if they sometimes don't respect themselves. Treat them how you would want to be treated. It's a simple thing that could save you a lot of trouble in the long run.

Jen Forsyth
Brentwood

Though such lists are certainly in poor taste, what I don't understand is why the community is calling for the school to intervene in this matter.

How is this the fault or responsibility of the school system? We seem to think that any malicious action performed by a group of teenagers is somehow related to the school they attend. What if the list in question featured teens from several different schools? What if a group of teenagers robbed a liquor store? What if a single teen has a fistfight with another off school property and after class hours?

There has to be a line somewhere and it begins and ends with the parents. I'm so tired of schools being saddled with everything from feeding kids to making sure that they have glasses. It's time for the parents to take responsibility in this matter--on both sides--and leave the schools out of it.

Also, shame on Mark Hart for his grandstanding--perhaps his neck will be on the chopping block one day and he'll know what it's like to have people calling for blood!

Eric B. Lopez
Sewickley

Which is worse: high school boys ranking girls, or adults salivating over People Magazine's ranking of the "100 Most Beautiful People"?

When adults send a message that individuals are just objects to be listed, compared and ranked, why are we outraged that our kids do the same?

Ray Janicko
McCandless

I can't believe that there are people out there blaming these girls. I agree girls are dressing with very poor and inappropriate taste these days, showing way too much skin, especially in school. But what these girls do in their personal life, sexually or not, should not be kept on a list. If a girl slept with 10 guys in high school, that's her business and nobody else's.

Males these days just don't care about anything but what they can get a kick out of. For those of you who say, was anybody hurt physically...who cares... people were hurt emotionally and mentally, which is very important.

I don't think these boys should be expelled, but I do think they need to be punished somehow. Personal, hurt-felt, apologies to each of the girls and some kind of service, like cleaning up the cafeteria after every lunch and staying after school to help out. Not necessarily community service, but some kind of school service.

I do agree with some of you who say that there are probably girls that are dying to be on that list and that's just the way life goes. It's one thing to have a list with the ranking of attractiveness, but it's another thing to take it to the level it has gotten too, with sexual info., derogatory and ethnic statements.

Maybe if parent's spent more time with their kids (both boys and girls) then stuff like this wouldn't happen.

Danielle
Pittsburgh

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More comments: Wednesday, April 26