It's been more than four years since the mayor announced the Market Place at Fifth and Forbes project, a sweeping redevelopment plan that would have displaced 125 businesses, demolished 62 buildings and replaced them with mostly national retailers, restaurants and clubs.

With the failure of the city's redevelopment plan for the Fifth-Forbes district and the imminent departure of Lazarus-Macy's and Lord & Taylor, the Post-Gazette invited some critics of the plan and other interested parties to share their new visions for reviving Downtown. Read what they had to say. Click photo to see a mosaic of images of the Fifth and Forbes corridor taken by Post-Gazette staff photographer Kurt Weber.

It touched off a tumult of protest, public meetings and alternative plans from building and business owners and preservationists that eventually helped to derail the mayor's plan in November 2000.

Since then, more shops have closed in the district, which continues its downward spiral. But the buildings remain, and those who bother to look up will discover an eclectic collection of architectural styles that is one of the district's biggest assets.

And some see those empty storefronts as full of potential.

The city Urban Redevelopment Authority continues to purchase property in the district and owns several parcels, including the former National Record Mart building, a former bookstore and a parking lot between Forbes and Fourth avenues. It also acquired the G.C. Murphy building for $4 million.

Whether this is good news or bad news depends on your point of view.

Eve Picker, who has successfully developed loft housing Downtown and in other city neighborhoods, is working with the Urban Redevelopment Authority on a plan to convert the upper floors of the G.C. Murphy building into apartments. Picker is one of nine individuals, businesses and nonprofit groups that agreed to share their thoughts with Post-Gazette readers on how the city should now proceed. Many participated in the mayor's Plan C ("for compromise") Task Force, assembled after his plan collapsed.

Some who responded say that with the Murphy administration's serial failures Downtown, it's time for the city to get out of the real estate and redevelopment business.

There are other ideas, such as building green and mixing bold new structures among the historic ones.

And while there's been no shortage of visionary ideas over the years, more than ever we need the practical strategies for achieving them.

With the demise of the Market Place at Fifth and Forbes plan, the city turned to another developer, Philadelphia-based Kravco Co., whose Downtown Works division, headed by Midge McCauley, came up with a preliminary, three-phase plan that was never officially announced or adopted. That plan, too, fell apart when Kravco dropped the project after merging in November with Simon Property Group, a mall developer.

McCauley took her firm to another Philadelphia developer, Dranoff Properties, and still wants to do the Pittsburgh project. Dranoff has been successful in developing housing in historic buildings (as it did with The Pennsylvanian here), and more housing, everyone agrees, is what Downtown needs.

But with everything in flux, the time is ripe for a new vision, one that relies not on big public subsidies and a single big developer but on a series of strategically located, smaller-scale projects, implemented over time, aimed at making the Fifth-Forbes district a residential neighborhood that can support grocers and other retail and service businesses.

In the spirit of realistic optimism, then, let's revive the community conversation.